#  Video: Diving with a Purpose: A Fifteen-Year Mission 

 





 


 Diving with a Purpose is an organization dedicated to the documentation and protection of African slave trade shipwrecks and the maritime history and culture of African Americans. Jay Haigler, Albert José Jones, and Erik Denson share the organization’s work and recent discoveries. They discuss the importance of submerged heritage resources in advancing the fields of maritime archaeology and ocean conservation and the need for a better understanding of the transatlantic slave trade and its global, cultural, and social-economic impact on society.

 Presented on 10/22/20 by the Peabody Museum of Archaeology & Ethnology, [Harvard Museum of Natural History](https://hmnh.harvard.edu/), the [Collection of Historical Scientific Instruments](https://chsi.harvard.edu/), and the [Harvard Museums of Science & Culture](https://hmsc.harvard.edu/).

###  About the Speakers

- **Jay Haigler**, Master Scuba Diver Trainer, Professional Association of Diving Instructors; Scientific Diver and Diving Safety Officer, National Association of Black Scuba Divers, Foundation; Board Member and Lead Instructor, Diving with a Purpose
- **Albert José Jones**, Professor Emeritus, Marine & Environmental Science, University of the District of Columbia; Founder of Underwater Adventure Seekers Scuba Diving Club; Cofounder of the National Association of Black Scuba Divers
- **Erik Denson**, Chief Electrical Engineer, NASA Kennedy Space Center
- **Ayana Omilade Flewellen**, Assistant Professor, Department of Anthropology, University of California, Riverside

 **Jay Haigler** is a director with Diving with a Purpose (DWP), a volunteer underwater archaeology program which began under a partnership with the National Association of Black Scuba Divers (NABS) and the National Park Service (NPS) in Biscayne National Park located in Homestead, Florida. DWP performs extensive underwater archaeological documentation of shipwrecks; surveys their condition; and develops detailed maps of the wreck sites. Haigler is also the Diving Safety Officer for the Scientific Diving Program of the National Association of Black Scuba Divers Foundation. He was formally a National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) scientific diver. A graduate of the Catholic University of America, with a BA in Electrical Engineering, Haigler mentors and trains new divers and encourages their exploration of such meaningful diving pursuits as DWP and Youth DWP. He received his initial Open Water training in 2005 through the Underwater Adventure Seekers (UAS), the founding club of the National Association of Black Scuba Divers (NABS) ([www.nabsdivers.org](http://www.nabsdivers.org/)). In 2010, he became an Open Water Scuba Instructor. He continued his dive education by becoming certified as a Master Scuba Diver Trainer by the Professional Association of Diving Instructors (PADI). He was formally a National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) Scientific Diver and in this capacity trained scientists, engineers, and technicians to perform a variety of underwater tasks in support of NOAA missions.

 **Dr. A. José Jones** is a director with Diving with a Purpose (DWP). Dr. Jones’s career as an educator and scientist spans thirty-seven years. For twenty-five years he taught at the University of the District of Columbia as a professor of marine biology and environmental science. He also served as chairman of the department of environmental science, dean for the College of Life Sciences, and provost and vice president of the university. Dr. Jones holds a master’s degree from Howard University in aquatic biology and a PhD from Georgetown University in marine biology. He was a three-time fellow of the National Science Foundation. As a Fulbright Scholar, he studied marine biology at the University of Queensland, Australia and dove the Great Barrier Reef for two years. Dr. Jones began his diving career while serving in the U.S. Army. While in college, he formed the Underwater Adventure Seekers (UAS) of Washington, D.C. in 1959. UAS is one of the oldest dive clubs in the world and it predates most national certifying organizations. As a master scuba instructor, Dr. Jones has amassed more than 6,000 dives in more than fifty countries where he has spread his message of swimming and diving safety. Dr. Jones is a spearfishing champion, scuba rodeo champion, and an underwater photographer/ videographer. Jones is co-founder, former president, and current chair of the Science & Education Committee of the National Association of Black Scuba divers (NABS). Through UAS and NABS, Dr. Jones and his team have trained and certified over 2,000 divers free of charge. In forty-five years he has taught over five thousand people to swim. Dr. José Jones serves as a role model and mentor for many people of all ages, creeds, and backgrounds. His leadership and standards for excellence have shaped many divers and emerging leaders.

 **Ayana Omilade Flewellen** (she/her) is a Black Feminist, an archaeologist, a storyteller, and an artist. She is the co-founder of the Society of Black Archaeologists and sits on the Board of Diving with a Purpose. Dr. Flewellen is an assistant professor in the department of anthropology at the University of California, Riverside. Flewellen has been featured in National Geographic, PBS, and *Science* magazine and has spoken at institutions such as the National Museum for Women in the Arts, the National Park Service, and Stanford University. Her research and teaching interests are shaped by and speak to Black Feminist Theory, historical archaeology, maritime heritage conservation, public and community-engaged archaeology, processes of identity formations, and representations of slavery. Her current book project, tentatively titled *A Black Feminist Archaeology of Adornment*, examines sartorial practices of self-making among African American tenant, sharecropping, and landowning farmers in post-emancipated Texas. Sartorial practices, in this forthcoming work, are defined as social-cultural practices, shaped by many intersecting operations of power and oppression including racism, sexism, and classism, that involve modifications of the corporal form (e.g., scarification, body piercings, and hair alteration), and all three-dimensional supplements added to the body (e.g., clothing, hair combs, and jewelry). She currently is Co-PI of the Estate Little Princess Archaeology Project, an award-winning collaborative, community-engaged archaeological project based on the island of St. Croix, USVI.

 **Erik Denson** is a board member and Lead Instructor for the Diving with a Purpose (DWP) Maritime Archaeology Program. He has been involved with DWP since its inception in 2004. Erik is Co-founder and President of DIVERSe Orlando, a National Association of Black Scuba Divers (NABS) affiliate. Erik has been a certified diver since 1992 and has logged over 900 dives worldwide. He is a PADI Divemaster and a member of the NABS Hall of Fame. Erik holds Nautical Archaeology Society (NAS) Certificates and a PADI Specialty in Underwater Archeology. He is an American Academy of Underwater Sciences-NABS Foundation Scientific Diver and a volunteer diver for the National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) and the National Park Service (NPS). Over the last sixteen years, Erik has assisted in training over 300 divers to become advocate underwater archaeologists. Mr. Denson received a BS in Electrical Engineering (*cum laude*) from Howard University in 1988 and is a member of Tau Beta Pi, the National Engineering Honor Society. Erik also went on to receive a MS in Electrical Engineering from Polytechnic University of New York in 1990. Mr. Denson is currently the chief electrical engineer for NASA at the Kennedy Space Center and has been with NASA for over thirty years.

##  Transcript

 **Diving with a Purpose: A Fifteen-Year Mission**

 \[00:00:08.36\] Good evening, everyone. My name is Jane Pickering, and I am the Director of the Peabody Museum of Archaeology and Ethnology. And I'm delighted to welcome you tonight to our panel discussion that is sponsored by the Harvard Museums of Science and Culture.

 \[00:00:25.31\] Tonight, we're going to learn about the important work that the international organization, Diving With a Purpose is conducting to research and conserve submerged heritage sites. And we're honored this evening to have two of the founders of Diving With a Purpose with us, Jay Haigler and Dr. Albert José Jones.

 \[00:00:46.43\] And they're going to trace the organization's 15-year history, which has included expeditions in Africa, Brazil, Cuba, and Florida and recovering relics from slave ships as well as aircraft flown by African-American pilots in World War II. So to give you a sense of the structure of the evening, we're going to begin with an overview of Diving With a Purpose by Jay Haigler, who I'm about to introduce.

 \[00:01:14.39\] And we're then going to engage in a Q&A session with him and Dr. Albert José Jones, moderated by Pete-- Peter Girguis. I always say Pete-- but Peter Girguis, a Harvard University Professor of Organismic and Evolutionary Biology. And then afterwards, we'll have a panel discussion with Mr Haigler and Dr. Jones as well as special guests, Erik Denson and Ayana Flewellen.

 \[00:01:41.15\] So it's now my privilege to introduce Jay Haigler. Mr Haigler is a Master Scuba Diver Trainer with the Professional Association of Diving Instructors, a scientific diver and Diving Safety Officer at the National Association of Black Scuba Divers Foundation, and a Board Member and Lead Instructor at Diving With a Purpose.

 \[00:02:05.13\] He was formerly a National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration scientific diver. And in this capacity, trained scientists, engineers, and technicians to perform a variety of underwater tasks in support of no emissions. A graduate of the Catholic University of America with a BA in Electrical Engineering, Haigler mentors and trains new divers and encourages their exploration of such meaningful diving pursuits as Diving With a Purpose. So please join me in welcoming Jay Haigler.

 \[00:02:43.66\] Thank you, Jane and Peter. Before we get started, Dr. Jones and I would like to thank the Harvard Museum, Peter, and a special person, Jenny Bergen for allowing us-- providing the opportunity for us to present this evening. It is a true honor. Diving With a Purpose-- restoring our oceans, preserving our heritage. DWP is a community-focused organization.

 \[00:03:17.13\] And we're dedicated to the conservation and protection of submerged heritage resources. Now we do this by providing education, training, certification, and field experience in the fields of maritime archaeology and ocean conservation. And this is available to both youth and adults. Now we have a special focus on the protection, documentation, and interpretation of African slave trade shipwrecks and the Maritime history and culture of African-Americans who formed a core of labor and expertise for America's and even the global's maritime enterprises.

 \[00:03:58.40\] We are very happy about our accomplishments. Since 2005, DWP has trained over 500 maritime archaeology advocates, including 150 youth. We've been featured in documentary series by the Public Broadcasting System. And we are a recent recipient of the 2015 Chairman's Award for Achievement in Historic Preservation.

 \[00:04:29.11\] To give a historical context of our organization, we must first start in 1943 in the birth of the modern scuba diving, which was the invention of the demand regulator and scuba tank by Jacques Cousteau, inventor. In 1959, the Underwater Adventure Seekers were formed by Dr. Albert José Jones. You'll hear more about Dr. Jones later in this presentation.

 \[00:04:55.39\] And in 1991, the National Association of Black Scuba Divers was formed by Dr. Jones and Mr Ric Powell. In 1993, that was a very important year because the Henrietta Marie is discovered. And this is one of the few ships that were involved in the transatlantic slave trade that was found at that time. And in 2005, Diving With the Purpose did its first field school; 2010, an expedition for the slave ship, Guererro. Now as a response to climate change, I worked in ocean conservation revolves around coral reef restoration. It is a holistic approach to climate change.

 \[00:05:47.54\] And we call it the Collective Approach to Restoring our Ecosystems, or CARES. This is very important as a response to climate change and the devastating effect it has had on our coral reef system and our entire ecosystem. DWP teaches underwater archaeology basics, which includes shipwreck surveying, trilateration mapping, in-situ drawing, and composite site mapping. First, we do land training. We train on land. And then we go under the water to do shipwreck documentation, both trilateration and in-situ drawing.

 \[00:06:39.17\] This is the result of our work. We process the data, and then it is developed into a digital site map. This is a composite site map of the Hanna M. Bell shipwreck located in the Florida Keys. And our composite site map was made by Ms Gayle Carter-Patrick, who is an excellent, excellent architect and those fabulous work in bringing all of our data together to put it on a composite site map.

 \[00:07:18.51\] It's very important that we not only just do reports and create site maps but to do community outreach, to engage the community in the work, and get the community to become engaged. And the first thing that happens is to that note, you have to go and make presentations.

 \[00:07:39.77\] Publications-- we publish the work that we do as well as the work that we do in conjunction with our colleagues. Media publications since 2015, we remain active in the media in order to bring awareness to both maritime archaeology and ocean conservation. We're involved in museum exhibits. We have an exhibit in the National Museum of African-American History and Culture, which features another ship called the Sao Jose.

 \[00:08:20.82\] Museums throughout the nation, we also are involved in relative to having exhibits. And this is a museum exhibit in the History of Diving Museum in south Florida. We are also involved in documentary series. This one series was produced by the National Geographic. And it was a subject of our divers actually in search for shipwrecks as we discover the stories of our ancestors.

 \[00:08:52.20\] Our stories are very, very important and to bring back the meaning of memory. This is a special mission that we were in. The Tuskegee Airmen, the P-39 Mission and it's entitled, "Red T Tails 221226." The location of this wreck-- and it was a World War II aircraft-- is in Port Huron, Michigan. Now everyone is familiar of the great-- of our heroes, the Tuskegee airmen of World War II. What most people are not aware of is that when the Tuskegee airmen completed their basic training in Alabama, they did the advanced training in the great state of Michigan.

 \[00:09:49.33\] So when there's training, there are training accidents. So during their stay in Michigan, there were approximately 14 training accidents in which planes crashed. And of those 14, five actually crashed in the Great Lakes, which brings us to the story of Second Lieutenant Frank H. Moody.

 \[00:10:11.93\] On April the 11th, 1944, his aircraft crashed in Lake Huron. And he was in a training exercise. His aircraft was discovered on April 11, 2014-- 70 years, to the day, of his crash. This was a very important mission. And it could not have occurred without the principal investigator, Wayne Lusardi, the State of Michigan Maritime Archaeologist. These pictures were provided by Mr Lusardi.

 \[00:10:52.10\] This is a picture of the radio call box, and it's completely submerged. And it's in approximately 30 feet of water. If you notice the yellow arrow-- the yellow arrow is pointing to the radio call number. And we'll talk about the importance of the radio call number briefly.

 \[00:11:14.59\] Now this is a enlargened picture of the radio call number-- 221226. The importance of that number is this-- it's like a signature. In the Army Air Corps, when a pilot is assigned a plane, he is given a unique radio call number. And that radio call number belongs to that particular pilot. When the radio call box was found, this was in pristine condition. So it's as if Second Lieutenant Frank H. Moody's signature was on that radio call box.

 \[00:11:57.22\] This is some more artifacts from that shipwreck. And this is a composite map of the wing section. And as you've noticed on the left-hand side, the Army Air Corps insignia. And this is the actual picture of the insignia. The one thing that is really absolutely amazing and fantastic is the preservation of this plane. And if you notice on the far left side, that red dot. That is the running light for the aircraft.

 \[00:12:43.68\] We, as a team, and as DWP was so moved by this mission, that we decided that it was important to commemorate the Tuskegee Airmen of Michigan. And we have undertaken an effort to erect a Memorial in Port Huron, Michigan to honor the brave souls of the Tuskegee airmen of Michigan, in particular the 14 brave souls that perished in training accidents.

 \[00:13:15.66\] And the unveiling ceremony will be next year-- August the 28th, 2021. So come out and join us. And if you'd like to found out more information, please come, and actually go to our website. And you can find out more information. And if you would like, you can make a donation to support the memorial. And this is the design of the memorial that will be erected. Now kids, youth are our absolute future. We have a youth program which we teach both youth and maritime archaeology and coral reef restoration. This next video will give you an idea of some of the work that our young people do.

 \[00:14:10.20\] \[VIDEO PLAYBACK\]

 \[00:14:11.20\] \[MUSIC PLAYING\]

 \[00:14:47.52\] - Welcome to Biscayne National Park and the Youth Diving With a Purpose Program-- the first annual Youth Diving With a Purpose Program. We are sitting right now on the bottom of the ocean at the site of the outlying wreck. It's a 19th-century wooden sailing vessel about 150 foot long. And what you see going on around you are a bunch of high school students from all over the country who have come here to the park to get an experience doing underwater archaeology and helping the National Park Service by producing a site plan of the shipwreck that's just below the sand.

 \[00:15:25.26\] This is the 10th year that Diving With a Purpose has operated in this Biscayne National Park, and this is the first year that it's an entirely youth-driven project. The students that you see are from all over the country. And they've all come down here to south Florida to learn how to map shipwrecks and to be future stewards of our archaeological resources on land and underwater.

 \[00:15:51.36\] One of the things that the Diving With a Purpose Program teaches is the mapping of shipwrecks underwater. And what this young man is doing right now is he's examining a fragment of the ship's keel. He'll take detailed measurements and translate all of that onto the plastic mylar paper that we can write on underwater. Back in the classroom tomorrow, we'll take all the individual drawings that these students have produced and place them on an overall site plan of the map. And every tiny drawing will be used to create an overall plan that allows you to see the whole wreck at once and not just the little bit that you can see in front of you.

 \[00:16:29.65\] One of the things that's great about the Youth Diving With a Purpose Program is that not only does the National Park Service in Biscayne National Park get this great document that we can use in the operations of the park, but these kids get an awesome experience. They get a chance to see a little bit of what it's like to be an underwater archaeologist and what it's like to work underwater-- not just to be a tourist, not just to visit the site and look at it, but actually to get down into the science, into the detailed documentation of how an archaeologist works underwater.

 \[00:17:06.45\] One of the things we hope is not necessarily that all these young people are going to become archaeologists when they grow up, but all of them do come away with a new respect and understanding for historic sites and archaeological sites, both in the land and on the water.

 \[00:17:22.68\] The shipwrecks in Biscayne National Park are under constant threat. There's a lot of people in the public that don't necessarily understand the value of a historic resource in place. And one of the goals of the National Park Service is to keep these sites intact for future generations. These young people will come away as stewards, will go back to their communities and explain to the world why it's important for these sites to stay where they're at and hopefully bring a little bit of better protection to them.

 \[00:17:53.06\] \[MUSIC PLAYING\]

 \[00:18:15.11\] \[END PLAYBACK\]

 \[00:18:16.13\] As you can see, that our young people have bright futures. And they are preserving our oceans and restoring our heritage. And that's our future. It's very important to look at the foundation and how things started. So one of the fathers of modern scuba diving is Dr. Albert José Jones. And Pete will come and talk-- introduce him. And you'll get a chance to meet Dr. Jones personally. Pete?

 \[00:18:59.85\] Thank you, Jay. It's nice to see you again. And I'm really glad to be here. My name is Peter Girguis or Pete Girguis, as Dr. Pickering alluded to. I'm on the faculty here at Harvard University in the biology in the Department of Organismic and Evolutionary Biology

 \[00:19:14.19\] I'm a marine scientist, and I cannot tell you how thrilled I am to have this opportunity to introduce you to Dr. Jones. Now let's see, where should I even start? Dr. Jones is a Director with Diving With a Purpose. And Dr. Jones' career as an educator and scientist spans 37 years.

 \[00:19:36.07\] For 25 years, he taught at the University of the District of Columbia as a Professor of Marine Biology and Environmental Science. He also served as Chairman of the Department of Environmental Science, Dean for the College of Life Sciences, and Provost and Vice President for the University. Now we have a cool video to share with you that's going to tell you a bit more about Dr. Jones. So sit back and relax, and enjoy the show.

 \[00:20:01.90\] \[VIDEO PLAYBACK\]

 \[00:20:04.31\] \[MUSIC PLAYING\]

 \[00:20:10.60\] NARRATOR: Dr. Albert José Jones. One of the earliest pioneers of modern diving and instruction, Dr. Jones has dedicated much of his life to drawing interest to scuba and the marine and environmental sciences. He began diving while in the Army in the 1950s, quickly becoming involved with the dive community in the Washington DC area. While still in college in 1959, he founded Underwater Adventure Seekers-- UAS-- which exists to this day as one of diving's most successful clubs. UAS was a member club of the Atlantic Skin Diving Council. And Dr. Jones began teaching as an ASDC instructor in 1962, before the universal acceptance of national certifications.

 \[00:20:57.73\] In 1970, he became a PADI instructor. In 1991, with the UAS at its core, Dr. Jones and Ric Powell founded the National Association of Black Scuba Divers-- NABS-- to address the unique concerns of African-American divers. In less than five years, NABS had United more than 50 clubs, providing a network for divers to become involved in diving locally and abroad, underwater research, and other activities. Today, NABS continues to fulfill its charter, giving its members opportunities to meet and dive together.

 \[00:21:29.95\] With more than 50 years of experience and 6,000 dives logged, Dr. Jones has been instrumental in introducing thousands of enthusiasts to diving. Dr. Jones is a marine biologist who holds a PhD from Georgetown University and was a Fulbright Scholar. Today he continues to share his passion by speaking to students about career opportunities kn diving, marine science, and environmental science. He has been honored with multiple Diver of the Year awards and is also a Purple Heart Medal recipient. Thank you for your contributions to the world of diving, Dr. Jones. And welcome to the International Scuba Diving Hall of Fame.

 \[00:22:11.16\] \[BUBBLING\]

 \[00:22:16.46\] \[END PLAYBACK\]

 \[00:22:19.37\] Wow, what a treat. Now, I would like to invite you, Doc Jones, if I may, to turn on your camera and join us for a bit of a Q&A session. Dr. Jones?

 \[00:22:33.47\] Hello, Peter. How are you doing?

 \[00:22:35.30\] Hi. I am very well. It is really nice to see you again. How are you?

 \[00:22:39.47\] My pleasure. I'm doing fine.

 \[00:22:41.48\] I'm glad to hear that, sir. Now-- we have a few questions that we wanted to run by you if you don't mind. So should I give it a go?

 \[00:22:50.36\] Certainly.

 \[00:22:51.05\] All right, here we go. So first, Dr Jones, if we concede that climate change is a reality-- and since most of us are not nor will become marine scientists ourselves, I'd love for you to share with our viewers some of your thoughts on how we can work to combat climate change and its impact on the ocean.

 \[00:23:13.10\] Certainly. When we talk to the average person about climate change, the problem is so big they think they can't do anything. I've had people tell me, well, I know the ice caps in Greenland are melting. What can I do about it? Well, maybe individually, we can't do anything about the ice caps in Greenland. But together, we can do a whole lot. So we have some things that the average person-- you and I-- can do to maybe not stop it but certainly slow it down.

 \[00:23:43.51\] And one of the main things is to stop using fossil fuels. Everybody drives a car and, that puts carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, which makes the greenhouse effect keep warming up to the Earth and the oceans too. The oceans are really having a hard time-- they really have for decades. So we really see what was happening, not just here in the United States, but all over the world. So if we just start driving less and maybe electric cars-- and they're becoming more and more popular--

 \[00:24:14.19\] I'm almost certain that it will cut down the heating of the atmosphere. In a few months that we have been in this-- unfortunately in this pandemic, the air quality in many cities has really improved all over the world because you don't have hundreds of millions of cars out there spewing this carbon dioxide and other-- carbon monoxide-- and other noxious gases into the atmosphere. So we can actually see it changing right now. Now of course, we're going to go right back to what we were doing before after the pandemic is over.

 \[00:24:51.10\] But if we can do things like drive electric cars, recycle more, encourage people not to use the plastics and the Styrofoams, and start depending on wind and solar power, everybody can make a positive effect on the atmosphere, which will combat some of this climate change. Maybe one person can't do it, and we know one person can't do it. But if everybody does a little bit, it'll make a big difference in the air quality. And one thing that everybody can do, Peter, and that is use public transportation.

 \[00:25:25.90\] That would make a big difference if we just use public transportation and stop driving out nice cars. But if you got six people, and they got six automobiles, that's putting a lot of CO2 in the atmosphere. So those area few common-sense things that people can do. And people are more conscious now of climate change. There are very few people who say the climate's not changing.

 \[00:25:52.03\] If you live in the United States on the coast, you know the climate is changing. If you're lucky enough to get a chance to go into the ocean, you can really see the difference, especially if you go in the same place over, and over, and over, like we do.

 \[00:26:03.70\] Yeah. Yeah, well said, Doctor. So if I hear you correctly, if there is a hint of a silver lining to the experience we've had-- not to the pandemic, but to what we've learned from it-- it's that we can maybe do a little less without our cars and take some positive steps towards creating a--

 \[00:26:23.35\] Absolutely right, absolutely right.

 \[00:26:25.00\] Yeah, Thanks for that perspective, Doctor. Now switching gears a bit, if you don't mind. Could you give us some background on the slave ship Guererro? And tell us why is this shipwreck is important to you.

 \[00:26:39.22\] Well, the Guerrero is a ship that we've been looking for a decade. Now we got pretty good idea of where it is. And so why is this more important than the ones in Cuba, and Morocco, and Senegal, and Mozambique? One reason it's more important is because it's right in our backyard. That makes it easier to get to. The access to this wreck is easier.

 \[00:27:03.97\] Every other wreck we work with, you got to go a long ways to go to a wreck You got to do a whole lot to get ready for the trip. You got to spend extra time there. You got to go through government hassles with the country that you-- but see, this is an easy one. Now another thing about the Guererro-- it was a Spanish slaver, and it was still plying the trade even after both the United States and Britain had outlawed slavery.

 \[00:27:33.40\] Many were still doing it. So they were still selling slaves and capturing slaves years after this slavery was officially over. But so the Guerrero is one of those ships. And when the British appointed themselves as police of the ocean, they were chasing these slavers all over the globe, catching them, and putting them in jail, and prosecute them-- turning the slaves loose. The Guerrero was chased by one of these British ships, The Nimble. And a battle ensued. And both of them ran aground, unfortunately-- in the Florida Keys. They both ran aground.

 \[00:28:09.62\] And on the Guererro, you had-- let's see-- that was 1827, but they had 561 slaves on that ship. And 41 of them drowned when they ran aground because they couldn't get out. The people ashore could hear the battle, and they could hear the slaves screaming about trying to get out. So they went out with the rescue boats to try to rescue them. The Spanish slavers actually captured the rescue boat, took the slaves, put them on a rescue boat, and went to Cuba, and sold them into slavery.

 \[00:28:43.56\] And they didn't take all of them. Some of them, they didn't take, were brought to shore. But still, they were sold into slavery too. So it's a fantastic story. So we've been diving to find the Guererro. We call that a hid boat. We know it's there someplace. But slavers are very rare and hard to find. And since this one is easy access, we're not going to give up. We'll find it. It's just a matter of-- it's like a detective story. You go to the archives, do a lot of reading. You get a pretty good idea of where it is.

 \[00:29:21.09\] And then you get on the boat. And you look, and you look, and you look. Sooner or later, you get a hit on your magnetometers. You go down with your handheld metal detectors. And hopefully, you're on the wreck that you're looking for. We'll find it. We're very patient.

 \[00:29:39.42\] When you're working in archaeology-- and especially when you're working underwater, you've got to be patient because first of all, you're looking for something that is wooden. And the wooden vessels don't last very long underwater because the cellulose digesters will start eating it up. So you're hoping you can find something that's metal, which will last for ages, and ages, and ages. Some of these ships that we work on went down in 1701.

 \[00:30:03.48\] My.

 \[00:30:05.10\] And still, you get cloth and things-- actually get cloth--

 \[00:30:08.40\] Wow.

 \[00:30:09.27\] Leather. And a lot of these things are buried under the sand, so they're down there where there's no oxygen. It's anaerobic. So the organisms can't live. So they can't break down the-- thankfully-- can't break down the artifacts. But that's a short history of the Guererro.

 \[00:30:27.16\] A short history about a ship that can give us a bit more insight into our own history. I mean, I really appreciate you sharing that.

 \[00:30:33.53\] Absolutely-- it's right on our shores.

 \[00:30:35.98\] Right, wow. That's phenomenal. Thank you, Doctor. And thank you for sharing those stories. Now I got to ask you a question. Given your many life and career accomplishments, is there one thing that stands out for you?

 \[00:30:51.43\] Yeah, it's funny. I get this question a lot.

 \[00:30:54.28\] Oh, I bet.

 \[00:30:56.89\] Well, I lived in the military experience, which brings in being in combat, and I earned a Purple Heart \[INAUDIBLE\]. And these are life-altering and life-changing experiences. I would have to say-- and I may say it a little strange-- I would have to say learning to dive and becoming a dive instructor. If you talk to anybody that's a diver-- first of all, they brag a lot, and they tell a lot of lies, but other than those two things, \[CHUCKLES\] they will tell you that the diving changed their life.

 \[00:31:28.91\] It makes a big difference. It opens so many doors to you. One door, of course, is travel. Because of diving, I had circumnavigated the glove by ship when I was still in my 20s. Diving provided that opportunity. Because of the diving, I was able to travel to 50 different countries, and dive all over the world, and meet all kinds of people. I was able to be exposed to all different kinds of cultures because of the diving. And of course, the knowledge that we got from the diving, we passed on to other people.

 \[00:31:59.71\] So the diving allowed us to train thousands of people to swim and to dive. We've trained over 2,000 people to dive, free of charge. We don't charge for any of this. And we were able to train 10,000 people mostly used to swim. So now we've got those people out there, and they're doing the same thing. So each one, teach one. This all started with six people. And now we've got thousands. So it's multiplying itself. So I would say the diving is probably the standout accomplishment. If I had to pick one, I'd pick the diving.

 \[00:32:36.39\] Ah-- I love that so much. And I love the fact that you start with six, and now you've got thousands. I mean, wow. That is a heck of a success.

 \[00:32:47.16\] That wasn't our intention at first, you know. We didn't get together and say, let's create a big association all over the world. How I did it, we got together with just a bunch of guys who want to have fun in the water. Then we got serious. We grew up and got serious.

 \[00:33:04.03\] Plus-- people were interested in it. They were coming to us-- please, sir, teach me. I want to know how to do that. Because they would see C Hunt on television. And they would see Lloyd Bridges, and they would say Cousteau. So it was a new thing, and people wanted to do it because it was new and exciting.

 \[00:33:20.28\] Right, yeah. But Doctor, people know a good thing when they see it too. So that's just wonderful to hear about the success. Now am I right in understanding you've got an autobiography-- a first volume of an autobiography coming out? I believe it's called The Pathway to PhD. And I think it was published last year. And I got say-- I, for one, would love to get a copy. Would you mind telling us a little bit about your book? And where do we find it?

 \[00:33:44.43\] It's actually starting off as an e-book. You can get it on Amazon Kindle. Or you can get it free, and print it yourself. \[CHUCKLES\] But I've been pestered, in a sense, by my friends that are in diving and martial arts. Why don't you write a book? You need to write a book. You need to write a book. So just out of self-preservation, I said, OK, I'll write these books to get them off my back.

 \[00:34:11.33\] So basically, it's an autobiography. It was written chronologically. And it starts with childhood and early childhood education. That it talked about the military, and the sports, and the education. But what I really wanted to do was to have something out there that would inspire other inner-city youth to realize that just because they're born in the inner city, and they went to public school, that shouldn't hinder where they're going. Because I want them to understand that everybody has a role model. I don't care who you are. All these adults that are successful-- including me-- had role models.

 \[00:34:48.83\] So people need to see somebody like them, so that they realize they can do it too. You know, I'm an orphaned kid from the inner city and went to public schools. And I did rather well because I had people that encouraged me to always say, hang in there. You're smart. You're going to make it. You're going to be something special one day. So I listened to them. And I hung in there. So it doesn't make any difference where you start. It's where you end up that counts. And I want you to know that. If the book inspires one person to become a marine biologist, scientist, engineer, then I've done my job.

 \[00:35:26.83\] Ah-- I love it, love it. I'm looking forward to it. I got a new book for my reading list. So thank you, Doctor. Now I'd like to take a moment, Doctor, if you can sit tight with me for a second, I'd like to introduce our panelists from Diving With a Purpose.

 \[00:35:39.10\] Surely.

 \[00:35:41.18\] Let's see-- let me start by introducing Professor Ayana Flewellen. Now Dr. Flewellen is a Black feminist, an archaeologist, a storyteller, and an artist. She's the Co-Founder of the Society of Black Archaeologists and sits on the Board of Diving With a Purpose. Doctor Flewellen is an Assistant Professor in the Department of Anthropology at the University of California Riverside.

 \[00:36:01.73\] And she's been featured in National Geographic, PBS, and Science Magazine, and has spoken at institutions such as the National Museum for Women in The Arts, the National Park Service, and Stanford University, where her research and teaching interests are shaped by and speak to Black feminist theory, historical archaeology, maritime heritage conservation, public and community-engaged archaeology, and processes of identity formations and representations of slavery. She's currently a Co-PI of the Estate Little Princess Archaeology Project, an award-winning collaborative, community-engaged archaeological project based on the island of St. Croix in the US Virgin Islands.

 \[00:36:42.38\] Now I'm also delighted to introduce Mr Erik Denson. Mr Denson is a Board member and a Lead Instructor for Diving With a Purpose and their maritime archaeology program. He's been involved with DWP since its inception in 2004. And yesterday, Doc Jones and Jay Haigler were telling me he was one of their first, right? Now he's a Co-Founder and President of Diverse Orlando, a National Association of Black Scuba Divers affiliate.

 \[00:37:09.01\] Now Mr Denson's been a certified diver since 1992 and has logged over 900 dives worldwide. He's a PADI dive master and a member of the NABS-- National Academy of Black Scuba Divers-- Hall of Fame. Mr Denson holds nautical archaeological society certificates in a PADI specialty in underwater archaeology. He's an American Academy of Underwater Sciences scientific diver and a volunteer diver for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and the National Park Service.

 \[00:37:39.61\] Over the last 16 years, he's assisted in training over 300 divers to become advocate underwater archaeologists. He received his Bachelor's Degree in Electrical Engineering Cum Laude from Howard University in 1998. And is a member of the Tau Beta Pi, a National Engineering Honor Society. He went on to received his Master's Degree in Electrical Engineering from the Polytechnic University of New York in 1990.

 \[00:38:03.55\] Mr Denson is currently the Chief Electrical Engineer for NASA, the Kennedy Space Center and has been with NASA for over 30 years. Also I'd like to welcome back Mr Jay Haigler. So folks, thank you for joining us.

 \[00:38:20.09\] Thank you, Peter, for that wonderful introduction. I'm looking forward to the conversation.

 \[00:38:24.53\] Oh, the pleasure is mine. Now--

 \[00:38:26.71\] Yes, thank you, Peter.

 \[00:38:27.97\] You are welcome. Thank you for joining us. Now we have a few questions. And I'd like to give each of you to comment on them as you see fit. So the first, of course, is why is the work of DWP important to you? Who'd like to start?

 \[00:38:48.53\] I'll go ahead and start, Peter, on this one. And again, thank you for having me. It's an honor here. Well, DWP, as Jane mentioned, it actually started in 2004. But with the actual field school, it came about in 2005. And at that point, I'd been diving for about 14 years. And I love diving, but I've always wanted to do more. I've always been interested in history and archaeology.

 \[00:39:15.65\] So when Ken Stewart and the late Brenda Lazendorf started a program, as you mentioned, I was one of the first people to register and participate. And I've been involved ever since. So why is the work of DWP important to me, you ask? Our motto is, "Restoring our oceans, preserving our heritage." And the DWP maritime archaeology program allows me to do just that-- preserve our heritage. And what I mean by preserving our heritage, I mean it in a physical and a spiritual manner.

 \[00:39:51.32\] Physically, we document historic wrecks and sites. But telling their story is most profound, and that makes it spiritual to me. And this, especially when it comes to the contributions of African-Americans in maritime history and culture. And it is important to share this rich history with generations to come.

 \[00:40:13.16\] And another part is training and teaching our youth. Jay talked a lot about this, and it is very important. And to me, that opened doors that they didn't know existed. And it is important to them to see people like them doing this type of work, and it sparks an interest. And as Doc mentioned too, DWP and diving has really changed my life.

 \[00:40:38.98\] Thanks for sharing. Thanks for sharing. That's fantastic. Anybody else want to comment on that?

 \[00:40:45.24\] Yeah, I'll jump in as well. Thank you, Ric, for that wonderful explanation. I'm a formally-trained terrestrial archaeologist, and I'm one of the newest members of Diving With a Purpose. I've been diving with them since 2016. And I've been on the Board since 2019. And one of the reasons why DWP is so important to me is that less than 1% of archaeologists are folks of African descent here in North America.

 \[00:41:16.02\] So the work that DWP is doing is really breaking through barriers that are in place for folks of African descent to actually get into this profession and do this work. And they're doing it from this non-traditional space. And the collaborations that they've been able to forge with organizations like the Society of Black Archaeologists-- which I'm also a Co-Founder for-- are providing avenues for college students, for graduates, and for up-and-coming scholars, early-career scholars like myself to actually engage in a field that was not open for us, be it financial or just practices inherent that are exclusive and exclusionary.

 \[00:42:01.74\] So the work that they're doing is really providing this space outside of academia that challenges the representation of what archaeology is, and who could be an archaeologist, and how that person looks. So that's why I love this work that we do together.

 \[00:42:19.90\] Yeah, that's wonderful. What about you, Jay or Doc? Who wants to go first?

 \[00:42:24.99\] Yeah, I'll go, Doc. First thing-- let me say a slight correction. Doc and I are Founding Directors of DWP when DWP became a nonprofit. But the true visionary of DWP is Mr Ken Stewart along with the late Brenda Lazendorf, who was a Park Archaeologist at Biscayne National Park. They're the ones that really had this vision of-- \[AUDIO OUT\] --looking for training them and searching for the history. And so as they began the kernel. And Doc and I came about a few years later. Then things just exploded, and it was very dynamic. The work that DWP does is important to me because for me, it is both spiritual and both a necessary thing.

 \[00:43:29.39\] Yeah, I can absolutely see that.

 \[00:43:33.59\] Everything that we do involves an ancestral part, but it also involves that ancestry touching today. In both our maritime archaeology programs as well as our ocean conservation. In ocean conservation, it really is about actually bringing the ocean back to what it was. So again, those are the things that really are important, and it's the foundation for our future. So that's why it's really important to me. Dr. Jones?

 \[00:44:12.37\] Yeah, DWP has really provided a platform and a format for people to learn this. This is like anything else. I was already a scientist when I was introduced to the underwater archaeology. I had already dived thousands of dives all over the world. But this was different-- a lot different because now this is more than just fun and going down taking pictures. This has to do with digging up history, filling in the gaps.

 \[00:44:41.72\] So I had an opportunity to see artifacts that had been brought up from a slave wreck. I had the chance to go out and dive the wreck. And it was in it. Any other dive? No. It was not like any other dive. It was like touching the souls of the ancestors. It was almost eerie. After that first dive on that slave ship, I said, we need to do this to ourselves. We can't expect somebody else to go out and find our history.

 \[00:45:07.00\] So I said, we need to get people trained, and go out and do this ourselves. And that's how it really got started. Now we got real lucky because Ken Stewart and Ms Brenda Lazendorf gave us the opportunity to do it professionally, instead of a bunch of people going out trying to do something without the proper training. We could have gotten proper training one-by-one if we were willing to go out to the different schools that teach it. And some of us did that. But once they started DWP, this was easy.

 \[00:45:37.36\] You had somebody who was willing to spend day after day after day with us-- week after week over the years to train us to do this. So if DWP were not there, it wasn't part of my schedule, then we wouldn't have all these people now-- hundreds of people that are qualified in maritime archaeology. So it's very important. I believe anybody can learn just about anything if they got a way of doing it and, somebody's got confidence in them.

 \[00:46:07.88\] Ah-- wonderful sentiment-- here, here. Thank you all very much. Those were fantastic. Now I know we've got questions backing up in our Q&A. So I'd like to ask just a couple more. And I'll start with Professor Flewellen. So if you don't mind-- how is DWP's work relevant to conversations surrounding social and environmental injustice or systematic anti-Black and Indigenous racism-- these kind of decolonizing paradigms and institutions and in this global society of ours?

 \[00:46:37.27\] Thank you for that question, Peter. As I mentioned earlier, the work that DWP does to really foster pathways for individuals to get involved in maritime archaeology is precisely the act of decolonizing this field and decolonizing the ways in which people gain access to this field as well. So that's the first thing that comes to my mind. Additionally, the work that DWP does with maritime heritage conservation as well as coral reef conservation and preservation really puts these two environmental and cultural frameworks in conversation with each other.

 \[00:47:20.30\] So if you could imagine the training that DWP does in June, they're blending both doing maritime work as well as looking at the natural environment and what's being grown and shifting in these environments based on the impact of these ships. So there's a conversation of both cultural and environmental heritage and preservation taking place, which oftentimes, aren't hand-in-hand.

 \[00:47:45.50\] And I know that working at the Estate Little Princess, which is also home of the Nature Conservancy as well as this 18th-Century Danish Sugar plantation, it takes a lot of work to really blend those conversations together and to foster stewardship among citizens to care for both. So that's really one of the prime ways that come to my mind around how they're decolonizing the field.

 \[00:48:12.57\] Yeah, that's just such important work. Thank you, Professor. Now I'd like to ask each of you if you'd like to comment briefly, so we can get-- I'd like to give our audience a chance to ask their wonderful questions for you. But DWP has many strategic partners. And would you mind telling us just quickly about the different partnerships and the work that you do together and some of the measurable impact that comes from those relationships?

 \[00:48:38.24\] Hey, Peter, I'll start off and then hand it off to maybe to Jay and Ayana. We had really a lot of great partnerships. One of the partners includes, like we talked about, the National Park Service, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, the Society of Black Archaeologists. We had the Slave Wrecks Projects, Ambassadors of the Sea from Costa Rica, and also the Florida Public Archaeology Network.

 \[00:49:08.45\] So DWP, as we mentioned, actually started in a partnership. And it really started back in 2003 when members participated in the Guererro Project documentary, which was a story about the slave ship Guererro we briefly mentioned. And as Jay mentioned too, the late Brenda Lazendorf, who was the only Park Archaeologist at Biscayne National Park and the start of the documentary-- she needed a help to document those shipwrecks in the park. And so she coordinated and founded the DWP along with Ken Stewart.

 \[00:49:42.50\] So each year, we have a Youth DWP Field School that is conducted in Biscayne National Park in cooperation with this National Park Service. Generally, we conduct the adult field school sessions in the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary with NOAA. We've also conducted missions to document the potential sites of the Guerrero. And that was done with NOAA and also the National Park Service. And in addition, we have conducted advanced training and missions in the Great Lakes with NOAA.

 \[00:50:16.73\] And Jay talked about one of my most meaningful and rewarding missions was the documentation of the Tuskegee Airmen, Lieutenant Frank Moody's P-39 in Lake Huron. We also are conducting, in cooperation with this Ambassador of the Sea, we're conducting field schools in Costa Rica in 2019 to 2021. And the culmination of all of the sites-- we have actually documented so many different shipwrecks and World War II aircraft-- over 18, including 18th-century and 19th-century sailing vessels.

 \[00:50:50.90\] And we've also accumulated over 18,000 hours of volunteer work in Biscayne National Park in the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary. I'll let Jay talk about the Slave Wreck Project partners. And Ayana can talk a little bit about the Society of Black Archaeologists and our partnerships with them.

 \[00:51:16.92\] Thank you, Erik. I know that Jay just dropped off. But I'd love to add that in addition to all of the fantastic partnerships that Erik just outlined and mentioned, I also want to state that so much of the work that DWP is doing in various theaters around the world brings in community engagement as a central practice in the work that they do.

 \[00:51:39.12\] So if you can think about the work with Ambassadors of the Sea in Costa Rica, that's a community-engaged-- a community-centered collaborative project that sprung up akin to DWP, where you have individuals who have a myriad of backgrounds both professionally, but have gotten into diving to really do this really amazing cultural heritage environmental preservation work. And you see that a lot of the work that we're doing with the Slave Wrecks Project as well in these theaters, such as in Mozambique and South Africa, really doing the training to get community members to be cultural stewards.

 \[00:52:17.46\] So to actually have the dive training to be able to do that work once projects are over, so that they could be and have a sustained impact in those areas. And then specifically for the relationship that Diving With a Purpose has with the Society of Black Archaeologists, they're training a number of young, Black formally-trained terrestrial archaeologists to do maritime work.

 \[00:52:43.95\] And through the myriad of relationships that DWP has with NOAA, with NPS, with the Slave Wrecks Project are providing avenues of opportunity for these individuals to then practice and have more training on-site around the world. So they're really doing fantastic work both here and abroad.

 \[00:53:06.93\] Oh, that's so wonderful to hear. Wow-- well, thank you all for such wonderful perspectives. Now let's switch gears again and turn to the questions from our viewers and attendees here. So let me start with this one. So the work you must do must be very-- or the work you do must be very emotional for you and your students at times. What do you do to manage, and channel, and rectify those emotions?

 \[00:53:40.27\] Well, this is a tough one because I've seen grown men-- big 250-pound guys with a bunch of muscles-- tough guys break down and cry, especially when we find something or they're handling something like the shackles. The shackles that were made for children are, I would say, is the one artifact that really, really gets to you. Because you think about, oh, everybody's got kids. Just think about your own kids. You think about who in the world could do this to a little kid? So it gets tough.

 \[00:54:12.83\] I've seen whole boatloads of people on the Henrietta Marie just break down and just cry. So you have to swallow it and keep on going because we're doing something that is tough to do. Because it's not like a job. It's not something you can train for. And because it involves your heritage, you are part of this. You say, gee, this could have been my great-great-great grandfather. This could have been my great-great grandmother on this ship.

 \[00:54:43.38\] So it's a tough one. It's not easy. It's easy until you get in that water. It's easy until you pick up that shackles. And I'm sure that other divers would say the same thing.

 \[00:54:56.81\] Yeah. What do you think?

 \[00:54:58.31\] \[INTERPOSING VOICES\]

 \[00:54:59.48\] --to Dr. Jones. One of the things that I do is I think it's important to focus on the work. This is critical work that we do. And focusing on the work makes me work harder. And then that work is actually manifested in others being inspired. And just one quick example. We have-- that's who I with, the Slave Wrecks Project in Mozambique. We actually train local community monitors in scuba diving and have them join our work.

 \[00:55:36.26\] So to watch a community of native Mozambicans actually learn to dive, get under the water, and then also now be involved in resurrecting that memory, and preserving their heritage, and seeing that bright light that comes into their eyes and that excitement, then that is what helps me actually gives me new purpose.

 \[00:56:09.01\] Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you for those perspectives. We have another question. How do you go about identifying your targeted sites for exploration? And let me roll that into another question that came in-- what are some of your favorite places to work, and what are some of the other challenges you have, say, dealing with permits in Cuba, for example? So again, how do you go about identifying sites? What are your favorite places to work? And what are some of the challenges to deal with? And do you have any in Cuba, for example?

 \[00:56:44.20\] I'll start a little bit with that, Pete. One of the things that we do-- we mentioned some of our partners, NOAA and also the National Park Service. And typically, we actually work with marine archaeologists. They usually are our principal investigators. So they usually do some of the preliminary research, identify possible targets. And we may participate with them in doing side scan sonar or multibeam sonar surveys to actually help identify some of the potential sites. We have done that type of work.

 \[00:57:20.32\] But usually, we work with marine archaeologists who are principal investigators that may have theories on where wrecks might be located, or what type of wreck it is, or different types of vessels. So we work with them pretty closely. And then they do a lot of the preliminary leg work. They're also involved with pulling the proper permits and trying to help pull all that together as well. And some of the challenges that come about is it could be diving conditions. We've drove up in the Great Lakes, which is a little cooler than a lot of our missions that we do in the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary.

 \[00:58:05.17\] So you have to wear actually different exposure suits. And it's a different environment and that type of thing. We've had partners-- some of our members participated in the search for the Sao Jose, which is in South Africa. And that water is even colder up there. So challenges could be current, surge, bad visibility. So it really depends on the different sites that we do.

 \[00:58:33.43\] Also, Peter, in shows like this, people will start calling in and also sending us their hints on where the ships are. And at first, we got all kinds of hints. And I was packing my bags-- by myself, sometime-- and running all over the world. And almost all the time, they're not real slave ships. We jump in the water. You go down. There's a big metal ship down there. You get angry. You put your gear back out-- you'll come back up, take your gear off, and go home.

 \[00:58:59.92\] But it's better to rely on the scientists, the fishermen-- believe it or not-- and those people out there. The people who are making a living from the sea-- they know when these wrecks are. They know where wrecks are. They may not be slave ships. And we take clues from them. And we go do our research. And hope that it's there. We don't just go just jump in the water and float around looking for a ship because you won't find it.

 \[00:59:26.43\] Yeah, I hear you. Yeah, so I'm going to take another couple of questions and blend them a bit here. So we have a question about are there specific issues of concern? What are the specific issues of concern for the Black diving community? And what causes fewer Black people to get into diving that we may not be aware of? What are some effective ways to try and help change that?

 \[00:59:56.07\] Every-- excuse me. I didn't mean to hop in. But every diver knows somebody who wants to dive. So almost nobody just-- you say, they get the second ahead. And so they see us doing it. They want to do it. And so we tell them how to do it, even if they don't live in our area. There's dive shops, just like there's ski shops and tennis shops. And you can pick up a telephone book and find a place to go to learn how to go diving. But if the opportunity to learn is not there, as it was years ago, the facilities are not there, then you're not going to learn.

 \[01:00:32.53\] See, now it's common. It's every day. So no matter where you live-- OK, what city you live in? You can pick that telephone book up and find out how to go learn how to dive. And of course, you can always call us. We can tell you how to do it. You got the platform. Just because you want to know how to do it. We've got the ability. And there's plenty of smart kids out there that can never get to college because they don't have the money to get to college. Same thing applies to the diver. If you don't know somebody that dives, how do you get started?

 \[01:01:03.16\] Yeah Professor Flewellen, what do you think?

 \[01:01:06.45\] Yeah, I just wanted to add on to Dr. Jones's comments, specifically around getting people of African descent in maritime archaeology. Exposure is one of the key factors to that, especially when it comes to exposure at a very young age. That's why the Youth Diving With a Purpose Program is so phenomenal. It's introducing middle school, high school age students to this kind of work that just opens them up to the possibilities of this work.

 \[01:01:34.69\] But then also, when you think about undergraduate programs and graduate programs, at the undergraduate program, if you're thinking about maritime archaeology or you're looking towards, for instance, historically Black colleges and universities to recruit students to do this work, most HBCUs don't have an anthropology program that would even cater to archaeology, terrestrial, or maritime, let alone provide the opportunities to have a field school experience, which is often required for undergraduates to then have access to graduate programs to do maritime work. So the barriers are on a multitude of fronts.

 \[01:02:13.12\] And then outside of the barriers, just within academia, you also have the very real issue around representation in the public media as well. When folks think about scuba divers, oftentimes, the first image that might come to mind is Jacques Cousteau. So it's really just trying to provide representations of a myriad of people who are doing this work. So that from youth to adult, you're able to actually see yourself reflected in these professions that then give you the opportunity to even think that they're possible for you.

 \[01:02:46.50\] Right, and then we-- that goes back to something Dr. Jones, and Jay, and Erik, and all of you have referred to earlier, this idea that when we see those who look like us, or sound like us, or we have something familiar, then it's really inspiring. Those are wonderful now.

 \[01:03:03.31\] Boy, let me move on to a shout-out from a gentleman named Eugene, who's a proud life member of the National Association of Black Scuba Divers, former Underwater Adventure Seekers club member and a Harvard Kennedy School graduate, says thank you for the presentation. They're excited to see you here. And so I just wanted to give Eugene that little shout-out.

 \[01:03:23.94\] Now I got a couple of questions for you. One comes from a fan named Nalayah, and she's seven years old. And she's been watching Enslaved and has a question, how heavy was the tusk that was recovered during the dive that they saw featured on the show? Is that something any of you want to take on?

 \[01:03:43.80\] Yes, I will take that. We don't know how heavy was the tusk because of-- well, first of all, one of our other members were in that episode. It's important that the global slave trade is an extremely complicated story. And it demands the attention of people who have the hearts and minds to tell that story well. Now this documentary series has the power to take that story to a huge audience.

 \[01:04:14.41\] It also can help bring attention to the work of professional marine archaeologists who have been active in marine research for decades. And that's a good thing. Now although they work in according to different standards, ones that do not necessarily reflect the long-standing values of DWP, the involvement of people who are not marine archaeologists has no impact on our work but of the work of other professionals in the field. So it's a very complicated thing.

 \[01:04:47.85\] And so it's really important. And I think the really important thing is that the exposure to also understand that there is that connection from the sea to the land and our ancestors from the past and the present.

 \[01:05:08.54\] Yeah, absolutely. All right, now I have-- let's keep on-- let's go for two more questions here. One question is, what would you-- what specific curriculum would you I'll suggest to move towards becoming an archaeological diver?

 \[01:05:30.97\] Well, there are different pathways. You, first of all, become a diver. You learn how to dive first. People come to us that have difficulty swimming. They're afraid to even get in the shower. And the want to go and dive on some of these wrecks. Because it looks exciting. And it is exciting-- don your gear, get on a boat, go out to a beautiful, blue sea, jump overboard, and go down, and swim \[INAUDIBLE\].

 \[01:05:57.08\] It's very exciting. But you need to know how to dive. So we have a requirement. You must be able to dive. And to be able to dive, you must be able to swim. So it really just goes back to swimming. We've trained some 10,000 people to swim, free of charge, because we realized one thing, that African-Americans are overrepresented in drownings. That's a fact. So swimming is more important than the diving. So first of all, start swimming. Get good at that. And then learn how to dive. Then come to grad school and learn the underwater archaeology.

 \[01:06:38.50\] Excellent. Good advice, Doc.

 \[01:06:43.65\] I would also add-- this isn't specific to maritime archaeology, but for those who are interested-- because I know we have a number of parents who are watching-- they can go to ArchaeologyInTheCommunity.com, and there's curriculum developed specifically for K through 12 youth to get interested in an introduction into archaeology. So that's one particular resource that might be of interest for people.

 \[01:07:09.48\] Oh, that's outstanding.

 \[01:07:11.73\] Also, Peter, you don't really have to be an archaeologist to become a maritime archaeologist advocate.

 \[01:07:19.18\] Right.

 \[01:07:21.42\] You don't need to have a degree or college degree-- you don't need to have finished high school. All you have to have is the swimming skills and a desire to learn. And we'll take care of the rest.

 \[01:07:33.26\] So then when do you think young folks should learn to swim and maybe even begin scuba? If you had to pick a number, what would you suggest?

 \[01:07:44.00\] I would say, 12-- 12 years old.

 \[01:07:49.17\] Yeah.

 \[01:07:51.32\] A lot of 12-year-old students are really good divers. Now you saw the video. Those are just ordinary, everyday high school, junior high school students that can swim, and we taught them the rest. And they are good at it. It's not a special curriculum for the kids. We don't cut it down and make it easy. They do the same thing that the adults do. And in many cases, they do better than the adults. So you don't need to have any degree to get into it.

 \[01:08:20.16\] Yeah, absolutely.

 \[01:08:22.23\] And I also just wanted to add just another resource as well-- Junior Scientists in the Sea are also another fantastic group training youth to do this kind of work. And that's doing maritime archaeology as well as coral reef restoration work. And we partner with Junior Scientists in the Sea down on St. Croix as well. And that project has started from training students just to swim and then getting them into open water, advanced, rescue. So there are a number of resources out there available for folks.

 \[01:08:58.96\] Yeah, absolutely. Wow, you all are a wealth of information. And let me ask you all, just as we wrap things up here, I'd like to give you a minute or so to share just some of your closing thoughts as we move towards wrapping this up with our viewers. Dr. Jones, you want to start?

 \[01:09:19.87\] Well, first of all, I wanted to thank you and the Harvard Museum system for allowing us this platform. We enjoyed you. We talked about it months ago, right?

 \[01:09:30.99\] Right

 \[01:09:31.59\] In Wyoming, of all places.

 \[01:09:33.30\] \[LAUGHTER\]

 \[01:09:35.20\] But we thank you very, very much for allowing us to do this.

 \[01:09:38.94\] Pleasure's ours. It's an honor for us to have you here.

 \[01:09:41.93\] We're hoping the audience will continue their interest in what we're doing, what we do, and visit our website, and learn more about it. And feel free to send us emails. If you got a name of a youth that want to be trained into this, let us know.

 \[01:09:55.68\] And we'll put them in contact with our representatives in the closest state or the closest location to them. So please send us the name. That's how I got started. I got started because somebody came to my junior high school and talked about marine biology. And I said, oh, I like that. So I know it works. So please contact us.

 \[01:10:18.18\] Absolutely. How about you-- let's go to Jay. What about you, sir?

 \[01:10:23.70\] Well, yes-- you know, our strength is in our partnerships. And we have not only institutional partners, but we are partners with the globe, with the community. We like to think everyone we meet, every institution, has the potential to become a partnership. So we're looking forward to a partnership with the Harvard Museums. And Pete, you know, I'm looking forward to having a partnership with you and things that you do in your research. But our global partners makes it strong.

 \[01:10:56.91\] And we are stronger together. So our partners in Mozambique, Dr. Ricardo Duarte, Young Scholars, Cezar and Celso, Dr Ibrahima in Senegal. There are strong partners that make all of our organization strong. So with this region, with this platform, I echo Dr. Jones's comments in terms of thank you very much for providing us this platform to talk to the Harvard Museums and the Harvard community. And we're looking forward to a bright future. So thank you, Pete. And thank you, Jane.

 \[01:11:38.92\] Thank you, all.

 \[01:11:40.53\] Mr Denson?

 \[01:11:42.11\] Yeah, Pete, and I would like to thank you and the Harvard University here for allowing us to share our story about this amazing program. It was truly, truly an honor. And you can tell that we are very passionate about this program.

 \[01:11:58.18\] Again, it's been a life-changing event for me. And I invite folks to come join us and experience this life-changing program. They can learn more about us a DivingWithAPurpose.org. And again, it was an honor. And Jay hit it right on the head, that partnerships, and collaborations, and the bonds that we have formed through this journey has been most important. And we continue to expand this. So we invite you to participate. Thank you.

 \[01:12:30.70\] And last, but never least, Professor Flewellen.

 \[01:12:33.60\] \[LAUGHS\]

 \[01:12:34.60\] Thank you. Just to echo the choir-- really in a state of gratitude for the Harvard Museums for allowing us the platform to share this fantastic work. And I will say that my introduction to diving with a purpose in 2016 has completely shifted my professional and personal life. The work that we are doing is absolutely transformative on so many different levels.

 \[01:13:00.97\] And I cannot wait to see more youth, in particular, get involved with this work because it's really with the young folks that we see the most promise. So I'm looking forward to knowing who's going to be the next great explorer out there, who going to really be the next great historian to share in new ways and new formats this world history.

 \[01:13:26.41\] Absolutely. Well, thank you all for your many thoughtful remarks and wonderful perspectives. And of course, thank you for your tireless efforts to educate and inspire people all around the world from all walks of life. You know, from my point of view, your core mission to educate, to celebrate, to welcome, and include.

 \[01:13:43.63\] You promote friendship and collaboration among all people, regardless of where they're from or what they've been through. That's inspiring. And it's something our world needs more of. So thank you, again, so much for what you do. I wish you and all our viewers the very best. So be well, everyone. Stay safe. I look forward to seeing you in-person sometime soon. Good night, everyone.

 \[01:14:02.69\] Goodnight.



 



 

 See also:- [ Public Lectures ](/video-type/public-lectures)
- [ Cultures ](/media-type/cultures)
- [ History ](/video-type/history)